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Subject Who Profits?
Posted 9/13/2002; 8:19 PM by Aravir Eldanar
Last Modified 9/13/2002; 8:20 PM by Aravir Eldanar
In Response To (#Top of Thread.)
Label None. Read 1530
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Today Lundar has released a letter from the Mystic Council. Much to my surprise, they have announced a deal between themselves and the Brion brothers for six of the Orga teleporation stones. I will give my impressions of the letter, but first please read the original.

To summarize, here are the terms of the deal as stated in the letter:

The Mystic Council captures six stones from the Orga and give them to the Brions. In return, the Brions construct a stable portal to the ethereal plane, provide trainers in the constructions and disassembly stable portals, and share what they learn from studying the stones.

Of course the letter does not include any additional terms that the Council might have chosen to keep secret.

Note that the letter does not promise that any of this will be made freely available to non-mystics. Will the trainers and the information sharing be for mystics only? Perhaps for Full Mystics only? Will the portal be placed in a location accessible to all, or in a locked area that only Full Mystics will have keys to?

Following are some additional comments on parts of the letter.

All of the Brothers have warned that continued uncontrolled access to the Ethereal Plane engenders an unspecified, but real, danger to the planes known to exiles, including Purgatory. There have been accounts of dangerous beings breaking the bounds of their planes and passing into both our material plane and the plane of Purgatory. The Brothers have attributed the intrusions to the weakening of the planar boundaries, due to the unrestricted travel.

The specific well-known example of the harm of uncontrolled access is the leakage of ether into Purgatory when someone departs from the Ethereal Plane. Since a permanent portal would inevitably result in a much larger number of such departs, Purgatory would actually be in much greater danger than it is now. This would be true regardless of who controls the portal, because unless it is never used at all (which would defeat the purpose) more exiles will be going to the Ethereal than are now.

Not addressed in the letter is the possibility of damage caused by experiments involving the stones. I for one would like to see some credible assurance that whatever the Brions do with them will not have any negative side effects.

At least two of the Brothers advocate attacking, and possibly destroying, our small settlement, should we fail to deliver to their "requests."

The Council does not wish to draw the ire of potentially powerful beings, and their minions. While threats of violence cannot be recognized as a valid negotiation technique, the Council desires the benefits of a peaceful sharing of knowledge rather than the destruction of war.

Such threats are not particularly credible, since the Brions can't get the stones themselves--they need us to do it for them. If the Brions go to war with us to get the stones, they automatically lose no matter how the war goes.

Still, do we really want to be giving powerful magical items to people who threaten us with destruction, no matter how dubious the threat? After all, once they have the stones the Brions won't need us any more, and we will have given them what could be a powerful weapon to use against us.

The Orga are a known hostile and violent race, competing with the exile community for the space and resources of this small island chain. Their possession of powerful tools that can be used to move large forces is an unqualified threat.

The Council would prefer those tools be taken from the Orga, and held by exiles or their allies. Increasing our knowledge of these Stones will also aid in our survival. The Brothers have offered to share the results of their research into the Stones' use and function.

Journeyman Neige recently sued to stop Mystic Manticore from doing just that, with the tacit approval of the Council. I served on the jury in that case, and opposed Neige's effort to keep the stone in the hands of the Orga rather than let it be taken by a Mystic he had some vague dispute with. I find the Council's sudden concern (without, you will note, any hint of condemnation for Neige) hypocritical in the extreme.

In the light of all the aforementioned considerations, The Council of Mystics asks that the people of Puddleby support the offered exchange. While we do not trust the Brothers completely, we feel that in this matter, the benefits outweigh the risks.

I ask that the people of Puddleby refrain from assisting the Council in this effort. This is a deal between two groups which have made clear their disdain for our community. They have not and will not hesitate to advance their own agendas even it damages the exile community--certain Mystics have even said so openly.

I am not completely opposed to a deal with the Brions, but any such deal must be made with the involvement of all exiles, for the benefit of all exiles, and not just for the benefit of an arrogant, deceitful cabal. It must also include assurances that the Brions will not use any knowledge they gain against us, and that the experiments will not be harmful to us or to the planes.

I urge all exiles to speak out when you hear of a raid on the Orga, urging people not to assist the Full Mystics. However, I certainly do not suggest using Neige's tactic. While effective, stopping the Council in that way would be sinking to their level, and I firmly believe that we must retain the morale high ground.

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REPLIES

RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Jeanne )
I am not completely opposed to a deal with the Brions, but any such deal must

   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Lundar )
Jeanne writes: "It seems like the Mystic Council was afraid that the Brions

     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Lundar writes this: Just the same, I am glad the Council chose to avoid conflict

       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Jeanne )
At which point the Brions would have lost, because such an attack would ensure

         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/16/2002 by Sor )
Hi all, Lundar gave a great description of what the Brions *could* unleash

           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/16/2002 by Jeanne )
In my sometimes not so humble opinion, that was one of the best oratories that

           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/16/2002 by Lundar )
Sor writes: "Although I do believe that a deal with the Brions is the good

             RE: Who Profits? ( 9/16/2002 by Hidden )
Lundar, how about a visionstone of the meeting the Council had with the 'Brions?

               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Lundar )
Hidden writes: "Lundar, how about a visionstone of the meeting the Council

                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Hidden )
I know that's probably not the answer you were looking for, but there it is.

                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Lundar )
Hidden writes: "That is exactly the answer I was looking at. It proves that

     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Jeanne )
What would you have told the 'Brions in the Council's stead? "We aren't afraid

     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/15/2002 by Ayella Sh'iale )
Lundar goes on and on about nothing, and chokes out one statement I remember:

       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/15/2002 by Lundar )
Ayella writes: "You say what Aravir says is offensive?" My post was in response

         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/15/2002 by Jeanne )
I did not mean to imply that, Ayella. My apologies if I came across that way.

       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Callia )
Fighters may be capable of using Ethereal amulets, did you ever think of that?

         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
It's worth pointing out that all the Brions met so far have been fighters and

           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Jeanne )
1. Perhaps anyone with a very, very high amount of Mentus training is required,

             RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Jeanne asked, "When someone gets info on the Brion brothers, are they wearing

RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Lundar )
Aravir writes: "Note that the letter does not promise that any of this will

   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Some responses to Lundar's message: I also see no reason why mystics would

     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Jeanne )
I certainly can, which is why I would like some assurance that they won't.

       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Are you saying that you think they want more exiles departing from the Ethereal

     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Lundar )
Aravir writes: "I certainly can, which is why I would like some assurance that

       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Jeanne )
I cannot speak for the Council, but I promise that I will share whatever knowledge

       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/15/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Yei, I have read through and participated in both of those discussions. I do

         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/15/2002 by Hidden )
Perhaps you would be so good as to simply provide an example rather than all

           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/15/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
The whole point of those discussions was that some mystics had done something

         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Callia )
Yei, I have read through and participated in both of those discussions. I do

           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia writes: If it was not your intention to refer to me, then by all means

             RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Callia )
Aravir writes: The statement in question was, "They have not and will not hesitate

               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia writes: I said the Council, not the Guild. Rather than repeat a very

                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Callia )
Aravir wrote: You mysteriously forgot to mention the second discussion, which

                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
And you still offer no specifics, if you expect me to learn, then you will

                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Callia )
And you still offer no specifics, if you expect me to learn, then you will

                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
As you wish. Here, publicly, I have offered to listen to your point of view,

                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Callia )
Inconsistent? Aravir and myself have spent this entire thread educating you

                           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
Aravir said specifically: "In fact I do not expect you to learn, nor do I care

                             RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Callia )
Aravir said specifically: "In fact I do not expect you to learn, nor do I care

                               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Ruen )
Callia, Since you seem to want specifics, I have a few I'd like to ask about.

                                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/21/2002 by Callia )
Ruen wrote: Laying aside all my other concerns for the moment, if an average

                                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/21/2002 by Ruen )
Thanks Callia, but that's not really the question I was asking. I'd assumed

                                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/21/2002 by Callia )
Ruen wrote: Thanks Callia, but that's not really the question I was asking.

                                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/22/2002 by Hidden )
If you think that the idea that a security measure might be included as part

                                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/22/2002 by Ruen )
Concerning the lack of full mystics Callia writes: I lack either the power

                                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/23/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia has presented both a good arguement for not accepting an ethereal portal

                               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
I'm sorry, I find the order in which documents are filed in this place to be

                                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/22/2002 by Callia )
My point remains I do not consider them "fellow scholars" rather it is you

                                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/23/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
It's rather well-known that the Ethereal damage to Purgatory is caused by people

                                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/23/2002 by Jeanne )
It's rather well-known that the Ethereal damage to Purgatory is caused by people

                                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/24/2002 by Callia )
It's rather well-known that the Ethereal damage to Purgatory is caused by people

                                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/24/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia writes: Actually, no. Departing from the Ethereal plane to Purgatory

                                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/25/2002 by Callia )
Aravir wrote: The only time I've heard any claims that planar damage was caused

                                           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/25/2002 by Jeanne )
And I merely point out the obvious flaw to your obvious solution: Regardless

                                             RE: Who Profits? ( 9/25/2002 by Callia )
Jeanne wrote: Then maybe the solution is to not give an easier way of getting

                                               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/25/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
While the exiles don't have a way to prevent people from getting to the Ethereal

                                                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/25/2002 by Jeanne )
Do we know that there's no damage to the Ethereal Plane? We know that Purgatory

                                                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Callia )
Jeanne wrote: Do we know that there's no damage to the Ethereal Plane? We know

                                                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Callia )
Aravir wrote: Do we know that there's no damage to the Ethereal Plane? We know

                                                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Jeanne )
Is the ocean damaged if you scoop out a bucket full and take it away? Is the

                                                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia writes: Ether is everywhere. On our plane, and on the Ethereal Plane.

                                                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Callia )
Aravir asked: We know that Purgatory is damaged by ether leaking in, why wouldn't

                                                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/27/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia writes: It is a natural condition for Ether to be everywhere. It is

                                               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/25/2002 by Jeanne )
Except that you don't have any way to do that, regardless of whether there

                                                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Callia )
Jeanne responded: Except that you don't have any way to do that, regardless

                                                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Jeanne )
That is three questions, not one. Since when do I have to limit myself to one

                                                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Callia )
Jeanne wrote: Since when do I have to limit myself to one question? Furthermore,

                                                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/27/2002 by Jeanne )
What if these two desires of yours are mutually exclusive? How will you proceed

                                           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/25/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia writes: Actually, you have heard a claim from another source, although

                                             RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Callia )
Aravir wrote: Skipping past the gratuitous inaccurate opening remark, Ahh,

                                               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia writes: Aravir wrote: Skipping past the gratuitous inaccurate opening

                                                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/26/2002 by Callia )
Aravir wrote: It's rather well-known that the Ethereal damage to Purgatory

                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Jeanne )
You are still incorrect regarding your assumptions surrounding the membership

                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Lundar )
Jeanne writes: "I doubt you'd understand because of how you view the Brions

                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Hidden )
Between the Orga, Darshak, Zonk, Tro'ols, Dark Bubbling, and the Ascendancy,

                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Lundar )
Hidden writes: "Yes it would [ be nice to have the 'Brions as allies]. What

                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Jeanne )
The 'Brions are certainly dangerous, but are they necessary our foes? I would

                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Lundar )
Jeanne writes: "It would indeed be great to have powerful allies but wishful

                           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Jeanne )
You claim that the 'Brions have shown hostility to Puddleby before. However,

                             RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Lundar )
Jeanne writes: "Since the Brions have given us Ethereal Amulet trainers and

                               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
You've got me there. It is indeed a mystery why the 'Brions continue to place

                                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Lundar )
Jeanne writes: "If you leave the doors to your house open, then don't be surprised

                                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
Certainly, the 'Brions are partially to blame for the incursions of exiles

                                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Lundar )
Jeanne writes: "Invaders? I haven't heard the Brions telling us to stay out

                                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
Then you haven't been paying much attention lately, have you? The 'Brions have

                                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Lundar )
Jeanne writes: "Melabrion's Keep doesn't even have a wall builder yet so does

                                           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
Melabrion does indeed have a wall builder. You probably haven't noticed because

                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Callia )
You are still incorrect regarding your assumptions surrounding the membership

                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
Look at it however you like, I have explained my position on the subject: I

                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Jeanne write: Perhaps Aravir was referring to the opinions of the Full Mystics

                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Callia )
When did I talk about you specifically? I was talking about who would logically

                           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Aravir Eldanar )
Callia writes: I'll say it again: Aravir claimed that a body of text (to which

                           RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
Further more, you've failed to pick up on my correct opinion of the 'Brions

                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Hidden )
And you still offer no specifics, if you expect me to learn, then you will

               RE: Who Profits? ( 9/18/2002 by Jeanne )
The specific reference you make to the discussion hosted by the Winds Of Dawn

                 RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Callia )
Jeanne wrote: A person doesn't have to be the official spokesman or give the

                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Jeanne )
So, what aspect of your reaction do you think I misunderstand? What is it you

                     RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Callia )
So, what aspect of your reaction do you think I misunderstand? What is it you

                       RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Jeanne )
Yes? And? What is it you think my assumptions regarding how Fighters and Healers

                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Lundar )
Callia writes: "What is it you think my assumptions regarding how Fighters

                         RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by Callia )
Yes? And? What is it you think my assumptions regarding how Fighters and Healers

                   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/19/2002 by Hidden )
How am I to learn if you do not explain it to me? /action snickers. Pot, kettle,

   RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Jeanne )
I also see no reason why mystics would hide the results of the 'Brions research

RE: Who Profits? ( 9/14/2002 by Hrothgar )
I'm not opposed to a deal with the brions.. But in my not so humble opinion

RE: Who Profits? ( 9/20/2002 by WorldWalker )
I am going to support the Mystic Council in trading the stones with the 'brions.









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